Disputations

(Gospel of John 8:12 - 8:59)

Jesus again addressed the people and told them "I am the light of the world!  If you follow me, you need not walk in darkness, but may bask in a life-giving light."

The Pharisees answered him, “What you say proves nothing, because you are testifying on your own behalf."

"Although I do testify on my own behalf, my claims are true.  I know where I came from and where I'm going.  You have no idea. You judge only by material standards.  I am judging no one, and, if I did, my judgment would not be mine alone, but would also be that of the Father who sent me.  In your law, it is written that testimony is accepted as valid if it is corroborated by two witnesses.  I am one witness and the Father who sent me is the second."

"Well, where is your father?" the Pharisees asked.

"You know neither me nor my Father.  If you did know me, you would know my Father as well."

Jesus had this exchange while he was teaching in the area of the Temple where the offering boxes were located.  He was not arrested there, for his time had not yet come.

Jesus also said to them, "I am departing and you will search for me.  But you will die in a state of sin, for where I am going, you cannot come."

The religious authorities speculated, "Is he going kill himself?  Is that what he means when he says 'where I am going, you cannot come'?"

Jesus explained, "You are from below; I am from above.  You are of this world, I am not.  I have told you that you will die in a state of sin, and you will do so, unless you accept that I am who I claim to be."

"Who are you?" they demanded.

"I am exactly who I've always claimed to be," he answered.  "Indeed, there is much I could say of you, much to condemn, but I tell you only the truth I have heard from the one who sent me."

It did not dawn on them that he was talking about God the Father.  And so Jesus added, "When you have raised up and exalted the Son of Man, you will realize that I am he, that I have done nothing on my own behalf and have said only what was taught to me by the Father.  He who sent me is always with me.  He does not forsake me because I always do what pleases him."

As he spoke, there many who came to believe in him.  To those Judeans who did believe he said, "If you continue to follow my teachings, you are truly my disciples.  You will then know the truth and that truth will liberate you."

They questioned him, "We are the descendants of Abraham and have never been anyone's slaves.  How then can we be liberated?"

Jesus replied, "I tell you truly, that anyone who sins is a slave to sin.  A slave is not a permanent member of the family, but a son is forever a member of the family.  Thus, if it is the Son that liberates you, then are free forever.  I know well that you are Abraham's descendants.  Yet, there are many of you who want to do away with me because you cannot find a place in your heart for my message.  I am telling you what I have been taught by my Father; you are doing what you were taught by your father."

"Our father is Abraham," they responded.

"If you were really Abraham's children," Jesus told them, "then you would act as Abraham acted.  You wouldn’t look for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth he heard from God.  Abraham wouldn’t do such a thing.  No, you’re acting like your true father!"

"We’re not bastards!” they protested.  “Our only true father is God himself."

"If God were your father, then you would love me, because I have come from God.  I have not come here on my own: I was sent by God.  Why can't you understand my words?  It's because you refuse to listen.  You are the spawn of the Devil, and you crave to do his evil bidding.   From the beginning, he was a murderer.  He scorned the truth, for there is no truth in him.  Lying comes naturally to his character, for he is not only a liar, he is the father of lies.  That’s why, when I tell you the truth, you won’t believe me.  Who among you can find me guilty of sin?  If I tell the truth, why is it that you do not believe me?  Whoever belongs to God, hears the words of God.  The reason you don't hear is that you do not belong to God."

They responded by saying, "We’re right then in saying that you are a Samaritan possessed by a demon."

"I'm not possessed by a demon!" Jesus protested.  "But I honor my father, and you dishonor me.  I do not seek to glorify myself.  God will do that.  He is the true judge. ... Truly I tell you, anyone who follows my teachings will never taste death.”

The Judean people proclaimed, "Now we know you're possessed by a demon!  Even Abraham died and so did the prophets.  You mean to tell us that whoever follows you will never die?  Are you greater than our father Abraham -- who died?  Or greater than the prophets -- who died?  Just who do you think you are?"

Jesus answered them by saying, "If I glorify myself, that glory is meaningless.  It is God who glorifies me, he of whom you say, "He is our God."  But you don't know him.  I know him.  If I said I didn't know him, then I would be a liar -- like you.  But I do know him and I follow his teachings.  Indeed, Abraham took joy in looking forward to my coming.  When he saw it, he was glad."

The Judeans mocked, "You're not even 50 years old and Abraham has seen you!?"

Jesus told them, "Truly I tell you, even before Abraham was born, I lived."

At that, the Judeans picked up stones to throw at him.  But Jesus took cover, and losing himself in the crowd, he exited the Temple grounds.

Notes
1.  These disputations, some with the Pharisees and the religious leaders, some with Judean people who had come to the Temple, (it’s not always clear whom he’s speaking to) reveal the weakness of Jesus' debate points and his reliance on circular logic.  He offers no real evidence that he is who he says he is, the Son of God.  He takes the stance of "I know what I'm talking about, you don't because you are not me and, therefore, are ignorant."  His audience is intelligent and morally good only if they accept him.  If they reject him, they are stupid and depraved.  There is no allowance for honest disagreement. And Jesus makes no effort to convince his listeners by logical argument; he expects them to suspend rationality and submit to unquestioning belief and obedience to him.  Failing to win over his audience, he becomes bitterly dismissive of it, and, like most who lose the debate on the facts, he turns to ad hominem attacks: he reviles his opponents as offspring of the Devil, liars.   If they are liars, he, perforce, must be telling the truth.

2.  These dialogues sound like nothing more than interchanges in an insane asylum between a delusional lunatic and his exasperated doctors.  The lunatic fervently believes he is Napoleon, or, in this case, God's son, and nothing can sway him from that conviction.  He expects everyone else to believe in him.  If they do not, they are evil, tools of Satan.  He knows everything.  He, only he, knows God.  He, only he, can save mankind and bestow upon those who believe in him the gift of everlasting life.  Jesus' rant differs little from that of the fantasy-prone schizophrenic.  It is no wonder the Judeans regarded him as possessed by a demon -- in modern parlance, a nut case.

3.  Interesting that the Judeans arguing with Jesus claim they are free men because they are descendants of Abraham, apparently forgetting the long, memorialized history of the Hebrew people in bondage, Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, and their present state of subservience to Rome.  As many at that time who awaited for spiritual Messiah yearned for a political liberator who could free them from the yoke of Roman rule and re-establish an independent Hebrew state.  Jesus here claims the truth will unburden them from the bondage of sin.  The truth is apparently the realization that Jesus is the Messiah or the Son of God.  (Liberation from the slavery of sin apparently doesn’t entail things like repentance and reformation, discipline, self-denial, respect for others, etc.)

4. Jesus, who is a rival of Moses and Abraham for the allegiance of the Hebrew people, claims precedence over them by asserting that he has lived for ever.  His listeners don't buy it, and when he claims to have seen and talked to Abraham, it’s the last straw, they have had enough of his assault upon their credulity.  They go get stones to throw at him, the ancient equivalent of getting the hook, with potentially lethal consequences.  Since his Father is apparently unwilling to protect him with an invisible force field or something, Jesus cedes the field and gets the heck out of there.

5.  Jesus makes a reference to the Devil, exactly what we think of as the Devil, a purveyor and personification of evil.  Even though the Devil is regarded as a central character in the Christian world view, he made a fairly late appearance in Judaic theology.  Moses, for instance, never talks about the Devil.  The reptilian tempter in Eden, or even the Satan of Job is never identified as the Devil per se, and the antagonists of the Old Testament Jehovah are nearly always rival national gods.

6.  Jesus makes continual references to his being “raised “up” or “exalted."  Meant literally as well as figuratively, it is a foreshadowing of his crucifixion, when he is be raised up physically and spiritually exalted in his ascent to heaven.

7.  When the Judeans reject Jesus they accused him of being possessed by a demon, but also revile him (incorrectly) as being a Samaritan, which, to a Judean, is apparently just as bad.  Samaritans practiced a non-standard form of Judaism and, as we have seen from history, even recent history, minor discrepancies in religious belief and practice can engender unreasonable hatred and violence.